Not Far Away...

I'm not Christian, and I like working Holidays.
I don't think that your penalty argument is too solid though. There are more jobs where public holidays are busier than regular days... I'd imagine that'd be true in hospitals, asl all the people I've seen beating each other senseless in an alcoholic stupor have to go somewhere...

This year I'm dropping pay over christmas day, as the penalty's aren't as much as the pay I recieve normally for working a Saturday...

A few radio stations hold christmas light competitions, so there is a good number of lights about. Try Summer Hill, Ryde/Eastwood, Berowra... The Tele usually runs a list of streets and suburbs closer to Dec25th.

I also think that Nativity scenes should only be in churches. I don't see how a council or government schoool can justify the expense. It is used for a few weeks every year, is a symbol of a dying religion, and doesn't have a direct benefit in the standard of living for the people under their care. If the church wants to promote their religion and beliefs, that's fine. But I want my rates and taxes to go towards infrastructure and programs that feed, clothe and heal people. (and a decent public transport system wouldn't go astray, either...)

Hi Lauren,
You'll notice that I said those who don't observe Christmas. You celebrate the holiday with your family. That indicates that you celebrate Christmas - for whatever reason.

I wasn't suggesting that Nativity scenes be paid for by the taxpayer. Lots of social clubs and organisations like Scouts used to have them at their club houses and have collection boxes for charities.

If we allow our traditions to fall be the wayside, then we might just as well give up on being Australians. What goes next ANZAC Day, Australia Day? Sure those are specific to us, but there would be an uproar if any of our old enemies, who happen to have moved here, decided they were offended by our show of patriotism.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but it comes with the territory of growing older. LOL

I'll have to keep my ears open for the Christmas Lights competition. Thanks for the info.

Vickie.

Vicki:
When I see the propaganda being put out by the Left about President George Bush (and branding him as a fanatical Christian)it is the Elites in this country that are causing the breakdown of Christian beliefs. But they are not replacing it with anything. Just rampant materialism and moral
degredation. Our Universities are just propaganda camps now with agendas...it is a despicable situation.
Pix

Hiya Pix,
I must first state that I'm not a Bush supporter. My reasons are many, but amongst them is that I believe that his advisers and his main backers are benefiting hugely by his term in office. Some of those people are not exactly people whom I admire.
I also believe that religion has no place in politics. However I do believe that morality has a part. It's a bonus that Pr.Bush has faith, but I don't think that his beliefs should be allowed to influence decisions for the greater good...even if he firmly and devoutly believes they do.
I wish there was an easy way out of this mire of contention, but I can't see one on the horizon.

Materialism has become our master and it cracks a mighty whip. Multinational companies have that whip in hand and the widerspread we allow them to become and the more influence they are given, the higher we have to jump. We can no longer have any real influence in our own countries if we permit the control of our businesses to be in the hands of overseas interests who are intent on making profits and not giving any returns.

We have no safety net. We have no job security. So many people have contracts and no guarantee of continuity of employment that we live in dread of the axe falling. We have developed a 'get it now' and damn the consequences attitude. It's not healthy.

Up until recently the Churches exerted a huge power of the populace, with their monsterous wealth, gleaned from some, not so savory, sources. The biggest slum landlords in many countries have, for generations, been the Churches. I have the idea that this has played a great part in the falling away of the public. Couple that with the degree of moral degredation which has come to light from many of their clergy, is it any wonder that people have lost their confidence in them? It has, unfortunately, become a case of "The Singer - not the Song". How many of this generation have actually seen the Churches in a really Godly light? Have we become so materialistic, that we actually need to 'touch' something before we can believe?

Theories have to be proven before they are truly accepted. Thus it becomes harder for people to accept religion.

What we need to replace religion (if indeed it needs replacing) is a faith in the goodness of man.

I believe in God. I believe in mankind. One I can't actually see as an entity, but I can see that God embodied in my fellow humans. I may have to search for it, but it's there. Love has to be our guide.

Oh boy, I bet I'm going to get a smack in the head from a few of my readers, but I'm writing this off the top of my head and I AM open for suggestion.

Love, as always,
Vickie.

Well, being from the "Good Ol' US of A, I might have to hold exception with some of what's being said here. In the first place, the church (not the Roman Church only or specifically) still wields quite a bit of power here. However, most churches seem to feel that their existence is dependant upon cooperation with the State they share residence with. That really hasn't changed over time. When most religions arise within a state that already has an accepted religion, they are immediately branded as traitorous, wierd, cult-like and so on. The Wiccan religion, Bahai and stuff like that comes immediately to mind.

The USA is very much a Christian nation. The "elite" of this country are generally Christian. Hollywood is divided between Jews and non-Jews, but the old money (which still equates with power in this and most countries) is still Christian. You'll notice that the overview and watchdog people that do our censoring (which comes under the guise of "rating" are definitely Christian in terms of faith.

Bush was supported by many Christian fundamentalist preachers. Many were on the Republican Party's payroll for this election. They also preached the fundamentalist/conservative/pro life doctrines to their congregations. One of the significant factors to their successes was the fact that the states where they have a strong hold are also states that don't do so well on the scale of quality of education. So, it is not hard to see where these people will go with the direction that they're used to from their so-callled leaders of their morality.

Which brings us to the problem that the founding fathers of this country addressed with the Constitutional separation of Church and State. It is not being observed. This country is Christian and Conservative and war like. There is no other description that fits it. There are people that are not any of the above. In fact, there are plenty who oppose and do not wish this to be the characterization of our country. However, the majority, or at least one half us all do support this characterization. It is to the advantage of those who are in control to keep this going so that we're busy reviling and fighting with each other. This way, not enough of us learn to discern for ourselves without the guidance of those who have their own ax to grind.

I enjoy the holiday season. I like singing the old carols. I like preparing and eating the traditional food of the season. I enjoy the decorations. I agree that the state shouldn't have to pay for any of it. I like the pagan aspect of some it as well. I have worked so many Christmas days and holidays in general that I fully enjoy being able to take off and to hell with the loss of pay. I also like to learn of other celebrations, festivals as well as mingling with the celebrants of them.

One's faith is their own business. A faith that needs expression to the exclusion of others is not a faith, but a ossified dogma. I have the same objection with Muslims that insist that theirs is the true faith, or with religious Jews that call those not of their faith Gentiles, unbelievers and so on.

It is good to see varied expressions of belief. It is not good to see a belief express itself as the only way to go.

If you would believe in the idea of a Creator observe what he/she/it has built and worship that as having been given to us by that which we hold sacred.

God did not build churches; men did. Men did not build the world and the heavens; God did.

G'day Jill,
My original post was aimed at Australia and Sydney specifically.

Listening to Talkback Radio, yesterday, I'm not the only one with these concerns. We have little old ladies (yep older than us) taking shopping centre managements to task for their lack of Christmas spirit. Teenagers were expressing concerns because they too can see it slipping away. One Muslim man rang in to make it clear that Muslims have no problem with Christmas, because they regard Jesus as a prophet.

What was the old and long word for seperation of Church and State... disestablishmentarianism? Throughout history Religion and Government have gone hand in glove. It's only been in, what can be considered recent history, that they have been supposedly divorced.

To me Faith is a very personal thing and one I've held close. I cannot believe that there is a Creator who would approve of the way man fights over him/her.

I can't express a huge knowledge of various religions, but I do acknowledge their right to worship as they see fit. I do, however, abhor the 'my god is the only god' doctrine...because I believe that there is a single creator.

Like you, I've worked through many a Christmas. I had one Christmas off in 12yrs at one stage. Last year I had off and this year I'm not rostered on either. I'd much rather spend the holiday with my husband than earn a few extra dollars.

Just a thought to throw into the pot: Why don't we have a holiday to celebrate Life and being alive?

Vickie.